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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Our boat came with a jib cunningham... I took
it off as it did little more than get in the way. Our problem has been
headstay sag, plain and simple. Our "pinch the wires together" system
never worked quite right, in that I think the backstay is too long, thus, the
sheaves are bottoming out on those little wire legs before its becoming
effective. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So... I could either drop the rig and replace
the backstay with a shorter version, or, I could simply do away with the "pinch
the wires together" system and simply do it the right way by cascading the shit
out of it. And since there is zero Capri 25 one design sailing in Southern
California, and since we're forced to race PHRF with our 25, cascading made
sense.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When I want to sail one design? Thanks, but
I'll sail my Finn. :)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mcnamara@visi.com href="mailto:mcnamara@visi.com">Dan McNamara</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ghselvin@ix.netcom.com
href="mailto:ghselvin@ix.netcom.com">Glenn Selvin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=mkhammett@sprintmail.com
href="mailto:mkhammett@sprintmail.com">Mark Hammett</A> ; <A
title=garry.cooke@gmail.com href="mailto:garry.cooke@gmail.com">Garry
Cooke</A> ; <A title=Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com
href="mailto:Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com">Ruedenberg,Emanuel (Rudy)</A> ; <A
title=capri25@lists.wyc.org
href="mailto:capri25@lists.wyc.org">capri25@lists.wyc.org</A> ; <A
title=kenreiff@gmail.com href="mailto:kenreiff@gmail.com">Kenneth Reiff</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:45
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Capri25] Backstay question
-- Reminder on WYC Capri 25 Fleet Rules</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>For those interested,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A tangental piece of equipment is the jib cunningham.
On Consensus we play this more then the backstay and vang. And
always in with added backstay tension to de-power in a puff.
Before each race we set our rig to the lulls, our halyards to the
average. When the puff hits the sheets get eased, the jib cunningham
goes on hard and the driver feathers up. The jib cunningham gets eased
as the bow comes down. Because of this we have never maxed out our
backstay. The driver uses it to balance the
helm, the trimmer may put it on hard after the genoa has been eased. It
is not to say that we should not goto our backstay sooner but the reality is
that the trimmer and driver have their hands full where the Foredeck
can actively trim the jib cunningham in the puffs. Another
advantage is it brings the Genoa draft forward, backstay alone brings the
draft back. The two in tandem keep the draft forward, reduce
headstay sag, bend the mast aft flattening the main and opening the
slot.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I guess it would not hurt to beef up the headstay tang but I don't see a
need for a more powerful backstay if all the other things you can do to keep
the boat flat and going up wind are happening. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The whole premiss of the WYC fleet is the take
an inexpensive boat (poorly design and hard to race to its rating)
and race it one- design. Having just campaigned a J 24 for the
North American's I have a greater appreciation for our rules ( 6
pages vs over 80 and thousands of appeals). Our scant 6
pages have captured the essence of what it takes to be a one-design
by keeping the keel, rudder and rig uniform, sails to fit a box and allowing
any other modifications. Starting with a POS boat it is
more important to have a good crew then good gear. The WYC C25
one design rules captured this perfectly allowing each boat to layout their
deck to maximize their crew work. When we get beat by more then a
boat length it was either my tactics or a crew mistake that cost us.
Every one in the fleet has the same design problems to overcome, how well
each boat does that usually decides that race.
Why any one would race a Capri
25 handicapped is beyond me.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dan McNamara</DIV>
<DIV>WYC C25 Crew of the Year</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 30, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Glenn Selvin wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2>We are a Southern California based Capri 25. In
fact, we used the factory tangs as attachment points for our cascading
backstay, and upon that backstay upgrade, I decided that I'd better beef up
our headstay attachment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>My plan is simply to leave the factory bow fitting in
place, and to simply install a new tang, through bolted to the
bow. That tang will not be welded to the bow fitting, as I don't
feel like going through the gyrations of removing that factory fitting so as
to take it to a welder. Instead, I'll simply install the new bow tang,
laying it right over the existing factory piece. Thus, the headstay
will attach to BOTH the existing factory piece, AND the bow tang through
bolted to the bow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Why Catalina didn't do this to begin with is beyond
me. And as to the Wayzata fleet? Why not change your bylaws and
allow the backstay upgrade? Its much nicer than the "pinch the wires
together" system.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=mkhammett@sprintmail.com
href="mailto:mkhammett@sprintmail.com">Mark Hammett</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=garry.cooke@gmail.com
href="mailto:garry.cooke@gmail.com">Garry Cooke</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com
href="mailto:Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com">Ruedenberg,Emanuel
(Rudy)</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=capri25@lists.wyc.org
href="mailto:capri25@lists.wyc.org">capri25@lists.wyc.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=kenreiff@gmail.com
href="mailto:kenreiff@gmail.com">Kenneth Reiff</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:38
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [Capri25] Backstay question
-- Reminder on WYC Capri 25 Fleet Rules</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P>Greetings Everyone;</P>
<P>I would like to remind all the local Capri 25 Fleet members that are
reviewing this discussion thread that the installation of a cascaded
backstay is a departure from the local fleet rules - A cascaded
backstay was installed on Capri 25 #009 "Divine Inspiration" and was later
disallowed because it altered the original running rig as defined by the
local rules. For all the out of town Capri's its a great way to get
additional purchase and manual force to reduce headstay sag and flex the
mast, bending the center forward to force for a flatter main in heavy
air. </P>
<P>Engineering Notes: Cascading Backstays and Headsail Tacks</P>
<P>Backstay -- The angle of the backstay is very important due to the
roach of the standard mainsails. PHRF mains that conform to the original
Capri 25 rules (the PHRF standard) have a greater roach than our local
Capris. This means that cascading blocks should use the original
chainplate positions on the stern and not be lead directly to the eye on
the cockpit deck aft of the rudder post. That eye is for the adjuster rig
only. If you cascade to the eye on deck the backstay angle is
reduced by as much as 6 inches, which makes low wind tacks and gybes of
the mainsail difficult. Especially so if you use a small amount of
backstay to create a better entry on the headsail for sailing up
wind. </P>
<P>The headstay plate -- This can be changed to the J24
hardware with minimal alterations (but to bend it with a hammer and
vise may weaken the plate). Several of the local Capris in the WYC
fleet have had a 6" L x 3/16" T x 1" W - SS
chainplate welded to the original tack plate and have 1
to 3 countersunk 3/8" dia. screws and a reinforcement block
on the inside with fender washers and lock nuts. The total length of the
chainplate addition is up to the owner but 6 inches (with 2 holes) is
typical. The rub-rail on the bow point does not need to be removed;
just slightly altered to accommodate the chainplate thickness and
width when installing it underneath. I use a 1" chissle to pry
the aluminum rail from the hull. The chissle will stretch the
aluminum nicely without breaking it. Just be gentle and be sure you remove
the mounting screws under the rubber (the most forward ones) first.</P>
<P>One good thing about adding the chainplate in the bow -- it
you t-bone someone -- the damage to your bow will be significantly reduced
-- just ask the guys on Fore Sail who tapped Ham-It-Up! this year...</P>
<P>Happy sailing, <BR><BR>Mark Hammett<BR>Capri 25
#370<BR>Ham-It-Up!</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid">-----Original
Message-----<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>From:
Garry Cooke<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><GARRY.COOKE@GMAIL.COM><BR>Sent:
Dec 30, 2008 9:53 AM<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>To: "Ruedenberg, Emanuel
(Rudy)"<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><EMANUEL.RUEDENBERG@BSCI.COM><BR>Cc:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:capri25@lists.wyc.org">capri25@lists.wyc.org</A>, Kenneth
Reiff<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><KENREIFF@GMAIL.COM><BR>Subject:
Re: [Capri25] Backstay question<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>sorry I noticed a
typing error, the 35% should be 25%.
<DIV>regards</DIV>
<DIV>Garry<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Garry
Cooke<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:garry.cooke@gmail.com"
target=_blank>garry.cooke@gmail.com</A>></SPAN><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">You
need to be careful how much force you are putting into your boat. The
backstay tension should be limited to no more than 35% the breaking
strain of the backstay wire. If you put too much tension in the rig,
you will increase significantly the compression force in the mast and
risk damage to the bottom of your boat. I know of two Express 30's
where the owners put too much back stay tension and drove the mast
down, and cracked the bottom of the boat, and in one case, let water
in. I also know of some Viking 28's where the deck has been buckled by
too much backstay tension. It would be wise to get a Loos gauge to
ensure that you are not over stressing your rig.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>good luck</DIV>
<DIV>Garry</DIV>
<DIV>Capri 25 'Endeavour' <BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Ruedenberg,
Emanuel (Rudy)<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com"
target=_blank>Emanuel.Ruedenberg@bsci.com</A>></SPAN><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You should
definitely call Bruce Tamm from 'Tsunami' if he does not answer this
email. He and I know others, have had terrible problems at the
bow. I seem to remember that the force of the forestay
separated the foredeck or something…..</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">good
luck</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">rudy</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Emanuel
'Rudy' Ruedenberg</SPAN></FONT></I></B></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sr. Quality
Engineer</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">CQE,CQA</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Boston</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Scientific</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">763-494-1468</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cell
612-201-7238</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MS
B260</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:capri25-bounces@lists.wyc.org"
target=_blank>capri25-bounces@lists.wyc.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:<A
href="mailto:capri25-bounces@lists.wyc.org"
target=_blank>capri25-bounces@lists.wyc.org</A>]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></B>Kenneth
Reiff<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, December 30, 2008
2:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:capri25@lists.wyc.org"
target=_blank>capri25@lists.wyc.org</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[Capri25] Backstay
question</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">We've replaced the standard "pinch the two
wires together" type of backstay adjuster with a very nice, and
powerful, cascade system as we've always had problems getting the
backstay tight enough to get rid of headstay sag while in
breeze. With this new cascading system, trust me, we're not
going to have headstay problems anymore.<BR> <BR>My
question? I looked below at the very front of the boat in
front of that little wooden piece, and the headstay fitting is only
through bolted at the top with no back up plate, and only one bolt
in the front stem, under the rub rail. Typical Catalina
construction... cheap. <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> <BR>Has anyone in
the Wayzata fleet improved their backstay adjusting arrangement with
a more powerful cascade? And has anyone ever beefed up the
headstay piece? I'm thinking of removing it, then welding on a much
longer tang, so that I have about three bolts through the stem of
the boat, not just one. Plus, Catalina used no back up plates,
only washers, which scares me. Has anyone put on too much
backstay tension and yanked the headstay fitting right off the
freaking deck? Or am I just being paranoid because these boats
are built so poorly? Thoughts on yanking off your headstay
fitting would be appreciated. If you could, please email me
at<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR
clear=all><BR>--<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>Ken Reiff<BR>Email:
<A href="mailto:kenreiff@gmail.com"
target=_blank>kenreiff@gmail.com</A><BR>Cell:
562-637-6630</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Capri25
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Capri25@lists.wyc.org"
target=_blank>Capri25@lists.wyc.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25"
target=_blank>http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>--<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>e-mail:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:garry.cooke@gmail.com"
target=_blank>garry.cooke@gmail.com</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>--<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>e-mail:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:garry.cooke@gmail.com"
target=_blank>garry.cooke@gmail.com</A><BR></DIV></KENREIFF@GMAIL.COM></EMANUEL.RUEDENBERG@BSCI.COM></GARRY.COOKE@GMAIL.COM></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<HR>
<DIV><BR
class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Capri25
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:Capri25@lists.wyc.org">Capri25@lists.wyc.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25">http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25</A></BLOCKQUOTE>_______________________________________________<BR>Capri25
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:Capri25@lists.wyc.org">Capri25@lists.wyc.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25">http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/capri25</A></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>