<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">I don't think I would relate the existing champ series schedule to a "marathon" -- it is just too long and drawn out. In some cases, some of the position trophies become a participation award for those who can "show up" for all the races. And it is true that all the fleets have a similar situation. We have now identified the problem -- so let's try for a solution. Personally, I think a Champ regatta at the season's end and lesser counting series during the season would be a good way to go -- but that is only "my two cents worth". And I think it is important for Fleet members to travel to other J22 events -- but it is also important to recruit members that are learning and those who may not have time (or resources) to travel to these events. For example, the reality of family commitments can change one's time availability, but not their commitment to be a participating member of the fleet -- if they don't have to make their sole mission in life. It's a busy World and fleets are forever fragile. We need to be thinking about bringing in new members -- always. <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks for the forum to present this opinion.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV> Pat K.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV> <BR><DIV><DIV>On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Thorn Turner wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">A couple additional thoughts on all the points below:</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">There has never been an "official" policy on average points and this has led to fear and loathing in the past. I think whatever we (or boat owners to be more specific) decide as a Fleet is fine but let's put it in writing and agree in advance of the season. Pat's comments on the marathon nature of the Champ. series are valid hence the rationale to award average points to encourage off-lake participation. My hunch is some people already look at the combined Champ or Districts as the pseudo "champ" series which is fine. Every Fleet out there has this issue with Inland, District, Regional, National, North American, World, etc. championships routinely on the schedule. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I submitted the point on the Fleet Captain being able to designate a race as a non-Champ. I think it's the best solution for at least one weekend of the NA's or Worlds. We're lucky to have an incredibly strong local Fleet but the overall health means we need to get off the lake and compete, and potentially forfeiting a Champ. series position should not be an obstacle. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The 2005 and 2006 NA's are good examples; in '05 there was the dilemma of whether to drive all night back from the event to make the Sunday Champ. race, as well as the potential to have to sail the lay day, Sunday, and there actually was discussion as to whether you would bail on the last day of the NA's or miss a Champ. race. Last fall I think there were four boats on the line for the final race following the NA's. In my opinion the best decision here would be to designate the race as non-Champ. However, the Fleet Captain puts in a lot of volunteer time and I think we need to trust him or her to act in the best interest of the Fleet when the season schedule is determined (usually in January) to see these issues and act. Mid summer is not the time to make these calls. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">All of this said though, I'm still in favor of giving average points for attending Cleveland Race Week, Levels, East Coast Champs, etc. It makes us all look good. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">All of this discussion is good. The lack of written policies has led to issues in the past so whatever is voted on is fine. There should be very few average points issues this year with the NA's in Sept. and Worlds in Dec. so look at this as a trial run. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">My $00.02...</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thorn <BR><BR></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: George <<A href="mailto:george@pcspeed.com">george@pcspeed.com</A>><BR>To: <A href="mailto:msbowers@alum.mit.edu">msbowers@alum.mit.edu</A>; <A href="mailto:j22@lists.wyc.org">j22@lists.wyc.org</A><BR>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:08:11 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet 1] **Notice of Vote - Ballot Attached - April29/2007 - 12pm (noon) Voting Deadline**<BR><BR><P><FONT color="#0000ff" size="2">Good feedback Mike. We missed you at the fleet meeting :) A few quick replies regarding past discussion on these issues....in HTML format for those that can see it.</FONT></P><P><FONT size="2"><FONT color="#0000ff">George <BR></FONT><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A href="mailto:j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org">j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org</A> [<A href="mailto:j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">mailto:j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org</A>] On Behalf Of Michael Bowers<BR>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:58 PM<BR>To: <A href="mailto:j22@lists.wyc.org">j22@lists.wyc.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet 1] **Notice of Vote - Ballot Attached - April29/2007 - 12pm (noon) Voting Deadline**<BR><BR>I have to echo some of Pat's comments. Unfortunately I was not at the fleet meeting where these ideas were discussed.<BR><BR>I view items 1 and 2 to be contradictory to the intent of item 3. I also think there is an assumption that there HAS to be average points awarded. There are not currently average points (that I know of) and this should also be an option to vote for. <BR><BR><FONT color="#0000ff">The executive committee wanted to encourage off lake participationa by awarding average points using a standard method. Choices are below. <BR></FONT><BR>For item 3, my assumption is that the Fleet Captain would have the option to de-classify a scheduled champ race because 1 or more boats that are vieing for the fleet championship have gone off to race at a North American or World Championship and represent our club and fleet at a highly visible event. This or a natural disaster, in which case I hope people would be more concerned for their family and property than the standing in a fleet race, are the only reasons I could see for the fleet captain to assert this athority.</FONT></P><P><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff">Last year is a good example of when, as fleet captain, I had to alter the champ series to accomidate other seasonal events. That is the reason for the fleet captain choice of total control below.</FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT size="2">If a race is declassified, there would be no reason to award average points. </FONT></P><P><FONT size="2"><FONT color="#0000ff">Not for that race - this is true</FONT><BR><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff"> </FONT><BR>I do not think it makes sense at the begining of the season to not schedule a champ race against a NA's or World's however, since there is no gaurantee that a member of our fleet will go, or if they do, neccessarily care about their standing in the series. I think it makes sense in this situation for the fleet captain to take the apporpriate action.</FONT><FONT size="2"><BR><BR>Unless I'm completely missing the point? Was there another reason for item 3 on this list? The situation last year at the end of the season, in my mind, would have fallen under the guise of a NA's and would have been to the discresion of the fleet captain to de-classify because most of the fleet was still reeling from hosting the NA's.</FONT></P><P><FONT size="2"><FONT color="#0000ff">In certain circumstances we might want to encourage participation by altering the schedule to accomidate NA's or Worlds. This merely gives us the flexibility to do that.</FONT> <BR><BR>Despite my views, I still laud the attempt to get this stuff down on paper and presented and voted on by the fleet. Please don't take my comments as an attempt to create chaos. I still think it is a better idea to have a rule that we can work with than to have random musings and no basis for direction.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR>--- Pat Kabris <<A href="mailto:pkabris@xtra.co.nz">pkabris@xtra.co.nz</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>> Were these rules discussed and made by motion at an open forum (fleet<BR>> <BR>> meeting) as they should be?? These options seem to imply that <BR>> there are no other choices. Who was the author??<BR>><BR>> I think the option for a Fleet Captain to act as his/her discretion on<BR>> which races may be counted is far too broad with no apparent<BR>> limitations. This may be appropriate under some circumstances but not<BR>> as a 'carte blanche' policy.<BR>><BR>> And the email I received does not bylaws attached.<BR>><BR>> Cheers,<BR>> Pat Kabris<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Apr 16, 2007, at 3:45 PM, George wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Notice of Vote<BR>> > Official Ballot - Fleet # 1 Bylaws<BR>> > Voting Deadline - April 29/2007 – 12pm (noon)<BR>> ><BR>> > Attached please find Notice of Vote/Official Ballot and J22 Fleet #<BR>> <BR>> > 1 Bylaws documents. We are voting on 3 issues within the newly<BR>> > adopted J22 Fleet # 1 Bylaws - see attached and below.<BR>> ><BR>> > Rules and Eligibility:<BR>> > For the purposes of voting on the Bylaws or Elections, each boat<BR>> > shall be entitled to one vote and may designate a proxy. A ballot<BR>><BR>> > shall be distributed to all Voting Members via email and/or in<BR>> > person 14 days prior to the election or voting date. No votes will<BR>> <BR>> > be accepted after the voting deadline as set by the fleet captain.<BR>> <BR>> > A simple majority shall carry the decision. All votes shall be<BR>> > tabulated by the J22 Fleet #1 Captain.<BR>> > Modifications to these by-laws may be proposed by any Voting Member<BR>> <BR>> > and voted on at the annual meeting only. A majority of Voting<BR>> > Members or their proxies must have responded to the vote to approve<BR>> <BR>> > a change.<BR>> ><BR>> > Voting Deadline:<BR>> > This election is being conducted via email. Notice of Vote/<BR>> > Election and Ballot will be distributed by email. All ballots shall<BR>> > be returned to the Fleet Captain no later that April 29, 2007<BR>> <BR>> > at 12:00pm (noon). Any Voting member that is unable to return your<BR>> <BR>> > ballot via email may contact the Fleet Captain to make special<BR>> > arrangements to deliver your ballot. All ballots are due by April<BR>><BR>> > 29, 2007 at 12:00pm (noon) - no exceptions.<BR>> ><BR>> > Contact: For information contact George Hansen, e-mail<BR>> > <A href="mailto:george@pcspeed.com">george@pcspeed.com</A> or phone (612) 940-2702<BR>> ><BR>> > Official Ballot:<BR>> ><BR>> > Place a capital “X” next to the option you are voting in favor of.<BR>> <BR>> > Please fill out the bottom of the ballot completely.<BR>> ><BR>> > Average Points -<BR>> > _____Option #1 –<BR>> > o Average points shall only be awarded for International or<BR>><BR>> > National sanctioned J22 events (Worlds & North Americans).<BR>> > o Average scores will count for Fleet Season Championship <BR>> > Series purposes only, not individual series<BR>> ><BR>> > _____Option #2 –<BR>> > o Average points shall be awarded for regattas that have a <BR>> > stated J22 class, racing as one-design.<BR>> > o No more than five average scores will be given to one <BR>> > yacht within a calendar season.<BR>> > o Average scores will count for Fleet Season Championship <BR>> > Series purposes only, not individual series<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Calculating Average Points<BR>> ><BR>> > _____Option #1 –<BR>> > o Average points shall be calculated based on RRS A10(a). <BR>> > Points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point, of her<BR>> > points in all the races in the series (A, B, C, G, T, M & MYC Champ<BR>> > series) except the race in question.<BR>> > _____Option #2 –<BR>> > o Average points shall be calculated based on RRS A10(b). <BR>> > Points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05<BR>><BR>> > to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races of that series<BR>> > (A, B, C, G, T, M & MYC Champ series) before the race in question.<BR>> > Fleet Captain Option<BR>> > · The Fleet Captain may at his or her discretion designate<BR>><BR>> > races as non-championship races for certain events.<BR>> > _____YEA<BR>> > _____NAY<BR>> ><BR>> > J22 Hull #: Voting <BR>> > Member: Date:<BR>> > <Notice Of Vote.doc><BR>> > <J22 Fleet # 1 Bylaws - Final.doc><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > J22 mailing list<BR>> > <A href="mailto:J22@lists.wyc.org">J22@lists.wyc.org</A><BR>> > </FONT><A href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><FONT size="2">http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22</FONT></A><BR><FONT size="2">><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> J22 mailing list<BR>> <A href="mailto:J22@lists.wyc.org">J22@lists.wyc.org</A><BR>> </FONT><A href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><FONT size="2">http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22</FONT></A><BR><BR><BR><FONT size="2">__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? 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