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<DIV><SPAN class=616095917-27042011><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>989 has one
too.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=616095917-27042011></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P>Thanks<BR><BR>John Olson.<BR><BR><BR>TIEco EDI<BR>11114 86th Ave. N<BR>Maple
Grove,MN 55369<BR><BR>email: john@tiecoedi.com<BR><BR>ph:
763-463-6550<BR>fx: 763-463-6555<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=ltr class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org [mailto:j22-bounces@lists.wyc.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>DANIEL J AMEN<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:50
PM<BR><B>To:</B> yrnehcmretep@yahoo.com;
lars@larshansenphoto.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> j22@lists.wyc.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future
possibilities.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>RE: "Can't remember a J22 in the
fleet with a mechanical compass."<BR> <BR>Well, I have one.
Plastimo circa 1990 (year I bought the boat). Works great and gives me
angle of heel.<BR> <BR>Can't wait to get home and listen to some CD's and
watch "Tin Cup" on the VCR!<BR> <BR>Dan Amen<BR>864
Charrette<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:53:10 -0700<BR>From: yrnehcmretep@yahoo.com<BR>To:
lars@larshansenphoto.com<BR>CC: j22@lists.wyc.org<BR>Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet
1] J22's and future possibilities.<BR><BR>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: bookman old style, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV><SPAN>The view from 390....</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>A TackTick MicroCompass is $560 with bracket.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>SpeedPuck is $400 with bracket.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>A Plastimo is approx. $150. Can't remember a J22 in the fleet with
a mechanical compass.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>A ProStart/Rock Box/NovaSail is $700 with bracket.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>The Dollars are in favor of the SpeedPuck.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>The KVH </SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>digital fluxgate <SPAN>compass patents
do not start to run out for 6+ years, so GPS based compass is the low cost
alternative. Also, WAAS GPS enable chips are not new. Soon, they will be in
cell phones. WAAS gives you increased accuracy.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Bottom line, if cost is the prime, GPS is king. In a year or two
WAAS GPS and finally A-GPS.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I believe the cost advantage has a historical parallel. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Remember the CD vs MP3 war. Appears magnetic compasses are like CD's and
GPS's are like MP3's. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>How many CD's have you bought versus iTunes downloads?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>GPS is inevitable. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Peter.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=2 face=Arial>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Lars Hansen Photography
<lars@larshansenphoto.com><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> j22@lists.wyc.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:32
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [J22-Fleet 1]
J22's and future possibilities.<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV id=ecxyiv1089672340>Greetings J22 sailors,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>After the long winter I'm really looking forward to the Dave Cool Ice
Breaker next weekend. I hope we have a big turnout. If anybody needs a crew I
think there are several people ready to help, post your situation.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thorn asked if I would continue with the discussion started at the fleet
meeting regarding the use of technology and the J22 and the future.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>At the national level we have been discussing the current rules
interpretation on use of instruments that use GPS data. In particular we are
looking at devices that can calculate the distance to the stating line, other
devices that measure speed and heading and other devices that can measure and
record performance data.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The J22 class exists to support and service J22 sailing and its members,
so the real question I have is what do you want for rules. There is a very
simple process to get get new rules in place, all it takes is a desire
by the membership and rules can change.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Now a little perspective and a survey.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The J22 class has these objectives:</DIV>
<DIV>"These rules are intended to preserve important design</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>characteristics: ease of
handling, low cost of ownership, safety and comfort."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>I think we agree this is
still a good objective. Feel free to respond to any part of this if you have
an idea of something you would like to change.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>We have a rule that
requires a compass, supposed to be a safety item, seams like a good
idea.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Another rule allows
optional electronic devices to measure speed, distance and water
depth.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Do you agree with this?
What do you think "distance" refers to?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Interesting point here: we
all use an electronic device to measure time at the start and that device ( a
watch or timer) is not specifically allowed. Don't you think we should add
"timers" to the list of allowed electronic devices?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Then there is this rule
interpretation:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><FONT size=2
face="VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA"><B>Electronic Compass - Head Lift
Function?</B><BR><I>Source: Summer 2000 Newsletter</I><BR>Electronic compasses
that display head/lift information are permitted. Instruments that perform
calculations, that is receive or output information from speedometers, depth
indicators, manual inputs of wind speed, inputs from GPS Instruments, etc.,
are not permitted.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><FONT size=2
face="VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA"></FONT></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA; FONT-SIZE: small"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3>The first sentence is clear. The second sentence is a little fuzzy. I
think when it was written It made sense. That kind of instrumentation was very
expensive and not in keeping with the objectives of the class.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3>Technology advances and things change. My phone has the capacity to
give speed and heading and I think it has GPS in it as well. According to the
rule interpretation it might be ilegal because it calculates inputs from cell
towers and or GPS. There are also devices that can calculate the
distance to the starting line like the Taktic Pro Start (around $600) and the
SpeedPuck that measure speed and heading (around $325). I think these devices
are illegal on the above interpretation, but they don't receive data
from other instruments it's all on board so they might be legal, all depends
how you read that interpretation. I think the basic idea is "keep it simple no
fancy instruments". Do you agree with this premiss?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3>So I think there is an opportunity to upgrade the rules to reflect what
you want in the rules and to make them clear for the future. So what do you
want?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3>Do you agree that the J 22 class should allow electronic instruments
that measure speed, distance, time, heading and depth? What would you
change?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Should the J22 class allow the use of
devices that can record and play back races and performance data. Would
you put limits of when you can access this data?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>What about the Pro Start device? At
$600 is it affordable? Is this the type of information and the type of
sailboat racing you think J22 sailing embodies? I think it is GPS based, may
not be illegal.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>What about the SpeedPuck at $325 is it
affordable? It gives speed and heading and can show lifts and headers, nothing
illegal with the data it provides but it is GPS based. Would you like to see
this device allowed.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Perhaps we should go backwards and
disallow all information except compass and speed? Keep the racing simple and
basic, how about it?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Thorn has suggested we try this weekend
as a test and DISCLAIMER I don't know if it is or not. The test would be
to allow the use of any type of electronic information you want. Get your fish
finder going! IF you like this idea, what devices are you interested in
using?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>It's your class, what
would you like? Please respond as it is the only way your representatives will
know what you want.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Thanks and really looking
forward to this coming weekend.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Lars
Hansen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Team
865</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span>Olds
Kool</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9px Helvetica"><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
size=3><SPAN class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<DIV><FONT class=ecxyiv1089672340Apple-style-span
color=#808080><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>J22
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:J22@lists.wyc.org">J22@lists.wyc.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22"
target=_blank>http://lists.wyc.org/mailman/listinfo/j22</A><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________
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