[Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting

Fri Mar 9 16:13:29 CST 2007

The mooring fees are now being calculated by a per foot basis. 

The old system was very complex and not at all transparent to club members (or board members). When we did a comparison the old system was very close to the world wide industry standard of charging per foot. To my knowledge, every marina on the lake charges by a per foot basis.

Our slip fees still remain less than half of the current lake rate. Mooring rates for a Capri could be as high as 5k from a marina full of powerboaters. It's not cheep, but the only thing left on Minnetonka that's truly cheap is wind.

I'm always happy to gossip about club stuff if anyone wants to contact me personally. 

dj

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rodriguez, Jesus [MIT] 
  To: Odell Tuttle ; Dan McNamara 
  Cc: Dutch Bull ; capri25 at lists.wyc.org ; Pete Willenbring 
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting

  I have read with high interest everybody's comments and I would like to share my thought about it.
    a.. I agree with Pete that we only use the Trap course some times so on a number of races we will need to run a course with a number of boats that are (I hope) slower that Capri 25s
    b.. On the Trap course, my concern is that we will be fighting the slower boats on the first upwind leg and afterwards we are getting caught on a maze of Handicap boats doing triangular courses and getting in the middle of our course
  I was also surprised by the mooring fee raise and I hope that everybody pays the same amount.  Each slot in the club is the basically same size and handles two boats.  If some boats are shorter in length does not mean that they use less the club or the docks.

  I understand that we charge more to people that do not race, after all this is a racing club and every new boat is told very clearly that if they do not make the 15 race minimum they will pay more but let's not try to create complex formulas for charging if not we are going to start looking like the Minnesota Tax code.

  Jesus 
  (Was) Sudawn - (New Name) Asturias

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  From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Odell Tuttle
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:55 AM
  To: Dan McNamara
  Cc: Dutch Bull; capri25 at lists.wyc.org; Pete Willenbring
  Subject: Re: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting

  Among his colorful comments, I believe Dan makes some good points (and I appreciate his willingness to challenge the status quo.)

  Trap courses: 
  I would also prefer to deal with the heavy traffic in lieu of the parallel courses.  I think we should avoid the trap courses as much as possible.

  Regarding the start: 
  I can only hope that over-running the J24's will be a problem for me this year, but I can understand Dan's concern.  At a minimum, I would advocate attempting to keep the starting sequence as consistent as possible between races.  Start sequence adaptation is not necessarily an area that I believe most sailors are passionate about developing.  I'd rather we focus our attention on better ways to negotiate all that traffic (since some idiot suggested that we not use trap courses.) 

  Club fees:
  I'm not sure if the comment was relevant here, nor would I want to make judgements about the board (I believe they are serving the club well.)  Nonetheless, I do like the idea of raising the minimum number of races to make the fleets even more competitive.  Or, what about the idea of reducing fees based on series scores?  This is racing club, right?  ...why not reward based on performance?  I realize I may be suggesting that my boat pay the highest fees in the fleet, but I would be excited about the challenge to correct it. 

  My 2-cents.

  Thanks,
  Odell

  On 3/8/07, Dan McNamara <mcnamara at visi.com> wrote: 
    I do not agree.  If the starts are based on up wind speed we should start ahead of the J 24's.  The sequence is fine if we want short races like T 1 1/3, W 1 1/2, Z R1...  We will also blow through the Sonar fleet and catch the J22's in most conditions.  The question for the fleet is "Are we out there to race or just show up and be happy with Bert's scraps?" 

    Personally  I hate the trap course.  It takes too long to set up (postponement flag when the wind is good)  It can't be adjusted.  And Tactically it is not a challenge the race is won with a good start and first beat especially if the wind has shifted by the time we have started (80% likely).  Or on Thursday nights guessing what side the wind will hold the best on the last beat before going flat. I refuse to race any Triangle especially in heavy air, too dangerous.  I don't mind the traffic on a W2 1/2,  It is far better then fetch, reach, bob, drift and finish. 

    How about an earlier start on Thursdays, traffic is better at 4 then 4:30 so it will take less time to get to the club if we volunteer to start at 6 we may be able to have the first start unless the S2 7.9 want to start at 5:57.  Or how about each series have a different start order? 

    There is another issue I have limited info on so if I am misinformed please let me know.  Recently I have been made aware that the slip fees have gone up this year and they have gone up more for our fleet then others.  1.  Why did the slip fees go up?  At the November meeting we had a surplus of money.  So much so that $150,000 was budgeted for remodeling a club house we hope to tare down in the future.  Did the new board mismanage the funds already?  2.  I have heard that the fees needed to go up because the boats participated too much,  not enough boat getting 15 race or less and paying the higher rate.  If this is true why not raise the minimum races?  More races should mean more crew fees and partners (anuals or family) and boats that do not participate more will pay a higher fee for taking up space that there is a waiting list for.  3.  Is the length of the slip the scarce resource?  No depth and width are.  How wide your boat or lift is would be a more fair way of of having different rates.  Or have it by the size of the slip that way a J22 or Sonar is not paying hundreds of dollars less then a Capri 25 for a space that both boats can fit into.   Or raise the rates for every one and then give rebates for the number of fee paying crew member the the boat has.   4.  Is the Capri fleet being singled out and targeted?  I have sailed in the J22, J24, Sonar and S2 7.9 fleets.  All of them have tried to get me to switch to their fleet especially the J's.  Their #1 recruiting line is  "your a good sailor, why don't you sail in a real fleet instead of the Crappy 25's... they are all a bunch of choppers that can't control there boats and they don't know the rules."  They look at us as a feeder fleet, to train new crew so they can poach them.  Other then that we just take up space and drink all of the beer.  I look at the Capri fleet as the perfect fleet.  Nice, helpful and sharing people.  Very accomplished sailors that have gotten all they can out of a poorly designed unstable boat.  Just ask the any one from a anther fleet who has helmed the Capri in heavy air.  The ruder does not work, is your sails don't get eased there is nothing the driver can do.  Not true in a Sonar, J22 or J24 all you need in those fleet to win a race is a great driver and crew that can follow directions.  In the Capri fleet you need at least two crew that can make adjustments before they are asked for (very much like racing a MC, C, E and other scows, if you have to ask its too late you are swimming). 

    As a fleet the Capri 25's bring in more money than any other.  We have the largest participation, the most fee paying crew, Family and Annual members.  The J 22' have more boats but it is a 3 person boat and less then half the fleet shows up to most races.  The Capri's are crewed by 4-6 and have great participation.  Most boat have a Thursday crew, Saturday crew and Sunday crew.  And we will take crew off the "crew looking for a ride table"  A J 22 can't race with a beginner on board and the J 24's only race on Thursdays. 

    As a fleet, are we happy being under appreciate? Having the established minority dictate how the club is run and the direction it is going?  If we are not happy with it are we willing to do anything about it?  How does making it more expensive to have your boat at WYC make sailboat racing better?  Are we better off moving to Shore Wood YC if the J22's J24's and Sonars don't want us at WYC? 

    I am sorry if I am being a rabble rouser or thinking there is a conspiracy if there is not.  But I am very protective of the C25 fleet,  Racing with and against you is the most fun I have ever had.  You are all great people and excelt competitors.  The racing is not any better in the J24 and J22 fleets just the start times and the courses they get.  I do fell that the Capri fleet gets the short end of the stick and now we are being hit with it.  The rate change is going to affect the quality of racing in our fleet, for some it will mean not buying a new sail this year or next.  For Consensus it will mean not replacing some failed blocks and other hardware unless I or other crew pay for it.  If that is needed I will drop my Annual membership and be a crew member spending the difference on the boat.  And not contributing to the mismanagement of the club.   

    The Capri fleet has proven that more expensive does not meet better racing.  I would like it if we as a fleet actively protected what we have built and got more involved in the management of the club.

    Sincerely,

    Dan McNamara
    Capri 25 crew and Annual member

    On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Pete Willenbring wrote:

    I also think this is a nice change..question will be how often are we going to use the Trap course...every week, only on Thursdays..etc.I know the race committee is reluctant to set up the parallel courses when winds are shifty..and then we will be directly behind the ensigns.which is not good for either fleet. 

    Pete

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    From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Dutch Bull
    Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:06 PM
    To: Kai Kroll; capri25 at lists.wyc.org
    Subject: RE: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting

    Kai,

    I believe the new start sequence would be a real benefit to the Capri fleet and should greatly reduce the interaction between our fleet and other fleet on the course. I would strong support it. 

    Dutch Bull 
    Northern Iron & Machine 
    Ph 651-778-3338 
    Fx 651-771-1292 
    Cell 763-300-9562 
    Dbull at northernim.com 

      -----Original Message-----
      From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Kai Kroll
      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:51 AM
      To: capri25 at lists.wyc.org
      Subject: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting 

      Capri-25ers:

      The fleet captain meeting is this Friday night.  The agenda and proposed new starting sequence are in the emails below: 

      I would appreciate feedback on the proposed starting sequence and other agenda items so that I am able to properly represent the fleet at the meeting. 

      Thanks,

      Kai

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      From: fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Bert Foster
      Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:19 PM
      To: WYC Fleet Captains; Mary Beth Hovey; Fred Somme; Jarod Silverman; Blake Middleton 
      Subject: [Fleets] Fleet Captains Meeting Friday Starting Order Discussion @ Bert's House 7:00pm

      Hi All,
      We are trying to make it lest congested by using the Trapezoid courses and maybe changing the order of the start and the courses, left or right, fleets sail. 

      The plan below came up last night in a discussion I had with assistant RC Chairman, Terry Foster.  See what you think.

      Starting Order           Left Course     Right Course 
      1)      S2 7.9                             X
      2)      J-24                                X
      3)      J-22                                X
      4)      Sonar                              X
      5)      Capri-25                                             X 
      6)      PHRF I & Ensign                              X
      7)      MORC II & III                                 X
      8)      PHRF I, II, III                                   X 

      The plan here is: 

        a..  to start the fleets generally in the order of upwind speed so a later starting fleet doesn't catch an earlier starting fleet at the 1st windward mark, as has been happening in some cases now. 
        b.. sail most of the one-design fleets that are rigged pretty much the same (fractional rig, big jibs in front and small jibs in back) on the left hand course. They will not have a tendency to catch each other and the fastest S2 7.9 may not lap into the Sonars as they have to make up 2 full legs and have a 9 minute head start. 
        c.. these fleets are generally less strung out than the others.  Therefore, if we start them with the fastest boats first, they won't be running over one another. 
        d.. moving the Ensign after the Capri-25 means the Capri-25s won't have the problem running over them on the first beat, particularly at the WW mark, as was a problem for the J-22s.  Note the Ensigns do not come out for Sunday, only Thursday.  Moving the Ensigns to star with PHRF I  means 2 small fleets and the PHRF Is can mostly sail away from the Ensigns right off the start (as the Sonars have been doing) and the Ensign won't be run over by the smaller MORC boats as they were by the J-22s. 
        e.. By having the Capri-25s start in this new slot they won't be run over by the S2 7.9s and they probably won't be running over many Sonars on the first beat. 
        f.. By having the Capri-25s start first of the right course boats, they will have clear sailing for at least their first 2 legs, maybe more.  By the time they start to mix it up with the other right course boats, they will be well strung out.  As they do mix it up with the handicap boats they should be able to quickly sail through them.  Some of the handicaps boats will also be on a triangle course out of their way. 
      Regards,
      Bert

      Hi All,
      Enough of you responded that Friday is the best time.  If you can't make it, send someone who is experienced in your fleet as your representative.  One one person per fleet plus the RC of Bert, Blake, Jared, and Fred. 

      I will provide beverages.  MB, maybe bring a bottle of wine you like.  I have some but you may not like it, as I don't know wine.

      Meeting Agenda 

        a.. Fleet Captains Duties 
        b.. Possible Starting Order Change 
        c.. Each Fleets Desired Courses and length.  Come prepared. 
        d.. Protests, out of fleet courtesy, and "CROSS OR TACK" 
        e.. Anything else anybody wants to bring up 
      Regards,
      Bert 

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