[Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Rodriguez, Jesus [MIT]
jesus.d.rodriguez at medtronic.com
Fri Mar 9 14:16:41 CST 2007
I have read with high interest everybody's comments and I would like to
share my thought about it.
*
I agree with Pete that we only use the Trap course some times so
on a number of races we will need to run a course with a number of boats
that are (I hope) slower that Capri 25s
*
On the Trap course, my concern is that we will be fighting the
slower boats on the first upwind leg and afterwards we are getting
caught on a maze of Handicap boats doing triangular courses and getting
in the middle of our course
I was also surprised by the mooring fee raise and I hope that everybody
pays the same amount. Each slot in the club is the basically same size
and handles two boats. If some boats are shorter in length does not
mean that they use less the club or the docks.
I understand that we charge more to people that do not race, after all
this is a racing club and every new boat is told very clearly that if
they do not make the 15 race minimum they will pay more but let's not
try to create complex formulas for charging if not we are going to start
looking like the Minnesota Tax code.
Jesus
(Was) Sudawn - (New Name) Asturias
________________________________
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org
[mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Odell Tuttle
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:55 AM
To: Dan McNamara
Cc: Dutch Bull; capri25 at lists.wyc.org; Pete Willenbring
Subject: Re: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Among his colorful comments, I believe Dan makes some good points (and I
appreciate his willingness to challenge the status quo.)
Trap courses:
I would also prefer to deal with the heavy traffic in lieu of the
parallel courses. I think we should avoid the trap courses as much as
possible.
Regarding the start:
I can only hope that over-running the J24's will be a problem for me
this year, but I can understand Dan's concern. At a minimum, I would
advocate attempting to keep the starting sequence as consistent as
possible between races. Start sequence adaptation is not necessarily an
area that I believe most sailors are passionate about developing. I'd
rather we focus our attention on better ways to negotiate all that
traffic (since some idiot suggested that we not use trap courses.)
Club fees:
I'm not sure if the comment was relevant here, nor would I want to make
judgements about the board (I believe they are serving the club well.)
Nonetheless, I do like the idea of raising the minimum number of races
to make the fleets even more competitive. Or, what about the idea of
reducing fees based on series scores? This is racing club, right?
...why not reward based on performance? I realize I may be suggesting
that my boat pay the highest fees in the fleet, but I would be excited
about the challenge to correct it.
My 2-cents.
Thanks,
Odell
On 3/8/07, Dan McNamara <mcnamara at visi.com> wrote:
I do not agree. If the starts are based on up wind speed we
should start ahead of the J 24's. The sequence is fine if we want short
races like T 1 1/3, W 1 1/2, Z R1... We will also blow through the
Sonar fleet and catch the J22's in most conditions. The question for
the fleet is "Are we out there to race or just show up and be happy with
Bert's scraps?"
Personally I hate the trap course. It takes too long to set up
(postponement flag when the wind is good) It can't be adjusted. And
Tactically it is not a challenge the race is won with a good start and
first beat especially if the wind has shifted by the time we have
started (80% likely). Or on Thursday nights guessing what side the wind
will hold the best on the last beat before going flat. I refuse to race
any Triangle especially in heavy air, too dangerous. I don't mind the
traffic on a W2 1/2, It is far better then fetch, reach, bob, drift and
finish.
How about an earlier start on Thursdays, traffic is better at 4
then 4:30 so it will take less time to get to the club if we volunteer
to start at 6 we may be able to have the first start unless the S2 7.9
want to start at 5:57. Or how about each series have a different start
order?
There is another issue I have limited info on so if I am
misinformed please let me know. Recently I have been made aware that
the slip fees have gone up this year and they have gone up more for our
fleet then others. 1. Why did the slip fees go up? At the November
meeting we had a surplus of money. So much so that $150,000 was
budgeted for remodeling a club house we hope to tare down in the future.
Did the new board mismanage the funds already? 2. I have heard that
the fees needed to go up because the boats participated too much, not
enough boat getting 15 race or less and paying the higher rate. If this
is true why not raise the minimum races? More races should mean more
crew fees and partners (anuals or family) and boats that do not
participate more will pay a higher fee for taking up space that there is
a waiting list for. 3. Is the length of the slip the scarce resource?
No depth and width are. How wide your boat or lift is would be a more
fair way of of having different rates. Or have it by the size of the
slip that way a J22 or Sonar is not paying hundreds of dollars less then
a Capri 25 for a space that both boats can fit into. Or raise the
rates for every one and then give rebates for the number of fee paying
crew member the the boat has. 4. Is the Capri fleet being singled out
and targeted? I have sailed in the J22, J24, Sonar and S2 7.9 fleets.
All of them have tried to get me to switch to their fleet especially the
J's. Their #1 recruiting line is "your a good sailor, why don't you
sail in a real fleet instead of the Crappy 25's... they are all a bunch
of choppers that can't control there boats and they don't know the
rules." They look at us as a feeder fleet, to train new crew so they
can poach them. Other then that we just take up space and drink all of
the beer. I look at the Capri fleet as the perfect fleet. Nice,
helpful and sharing people. Very accomplished sailors that have gotten
all they can out of a poorly designed unstable boat. Just ask the any
one from a anther fleet who has helmed the Capri in heavy air. The
ruder does not work, is your sails don't get eased there is nothing the
driver can do. Not true in a Sonar, J22 or J24 all you need in those
fleet to win a race is a great driver and crew that can follow
directions. In the Capri fleet you need at least two crew that can make
adjustments before they are asked for (very much like racing a MC, C, E
and other scows, if you have to ask its too late you are swimming).
As a fleet the Capri 25's bring in more money than any other.
We have the largest participation, the most fee paying crew, Family and
Annual members. The J 22' have more boats but it is a 3 person boat and
less then half the fleet shows up to most races. The Capri's are crewed
by 4-6 and have great participation. Most boat have a Thursday crew,
Saturday crew and Sunday crew. And we will take crew off the "crew
looking for a ride table" A J 22 can't race with a beginner on board
and the J 24's only race on Thursdays.
As a fleet, are we happy being under appreciate? Having the
established minority dictate how the club is run and the direction it is
going? If we are not happy with it are we willing to do anything about
it? How does making it more expensive to have your boat at WYC make
sailboat racing better? Are we better off moving to Shore Wood YC if
the J22's J24's and Sonars don't want us at WYC?
I am sorry if I am being a rabble rouser or thinking there is a
conspiracy if there is not. But I am very protective of the C25 fleet,
Racing with and against you is the most fun I have ever had. You are
all great people and excelt competitors. The racing is not any better
in the J24 and J22 fleets just the start times and the courses they get.
I do fell that the Capri fleet gets the short end of the stick and now
we are being hit with it. The rate change is going to affect the
quality of racing in our fleet, for some it will mean not buying a new
sail this year or next. For Consensus it will mean not replacing some
failed blocks and other hardware unless I or other crew pay for it. If
that is needed I will drop my Annual membership and be a crew member
spending the difference on the boat. And not contributing to the
mismanagement of the club.
The Capri fleet has proven that more expensive does not meet
better racing. I would like it if we as a fleet actively protected what
we have built and got more involved in the management of the club.
Sincerely,
Dan McNamara
Capri 25 crew and Annual member
On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Pete Willenbring wrote:
I also think this is a nice change....question will be how often
are we going to use the Trap course.....every week, only on
Thursdays..etc...I know the race committee is reluctant to set up the
parallel courses when winds are shifty....and then we will be directly
behind the ensigns...which is not good for either fleet.
Pete
________________________________
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org
[mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Dutch Bull
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:06 PM
To: Kai Kroll; capri25 at lists.wyc.org
Subject: RE: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Kai,
I believe the new start sequence would be a real benefit to the
Capri fleet and should greatly reduce the interaction between our fleet
and other fleet on the course. I would strong support it.
Dutch Bull
Northern Iron & Machine
Ph 651-778-3338
Fx 651-771-1292
Cell 763-300-9562
Dbull at northernim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org
[mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Kai Kroll
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:51 AM
To: capri25 at lists.wyc.org
Subject: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Capri-25ers:
The fleet captain meeting is this Friday night. The
agenda and proposed new starting sequence are in the emails below:
I would appreciate feedback on the proposed starting
sequence and other agenda items so that I am able to properly represent
the fleet at the meeting.
Thanks,
Kai
________________________________
From: fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org
[mailto:fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On Behalf Of Bert Foster
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:19 PM
To: WYC Fleet Captains; Mary Beth Hovey; Fred Somme;
Jarod Silverman; Blake Middleton
Subject: [Fleets] Fleet Captains Meeting Friday Starting
Order Discussion @ Bert's House 7:00pm
Hi All,
We are trying to make it lest congested by using the
Trapezoid courses and maybe changing the order of the start and the
courses, left or right, fleets sail.
The plan below came up last night in a discussion I had
with assistant RC Chairman, Terry Foster. See what you think.
Starting Order Left Course Right Course
1) S2 7.9 X
2) J-24 X
3) J-22 X
4) Sonar X
5) Capri-25
X
6) PHRF I & Ensign X
7) MORC II & III X
8) PHRF I, II, III
X
The plan here is:
* to start the fleets generally in the order of
upwind speed so a later starting fleet doesn't catch an earlier starting
fleet at the 1st windward mark, as has been happening in some cases now.
* sail most of the one-design fleets that are
rigged pretty much the same (fractional rig, big jibs in front and small
jibs in back) on the left hand course. They will not have a tendency to
catch each other and the fastest S2 7.9 may not lap into the Sonars as
they have to make up 2 full legs and have a 9 minute head start.
* these fleets are generally less strung out than
the others. Therefore, if we start them with the fastest boats first,
they won't be running over one another.
* moving the Ensign after the Capri-25 means the
Capri-25s won't have the problem running over them on the first beat,
particularly at the WW mark, as was a problem for the J-22s. Note the
Ensigns do not come out for Sunday, only Thursday. Moving the Ensigns
to star with PHRF I means 2 small fleets and the PHRF Is can mostly
sail away from the Ensigns right off the start (as the Sonars have been
doing) and the Ensign won't be run over by the smaller MORC boats as
they were by the J-22s.
* By having the Capri-25s start in this new slot
they won't be run over by the S2 7.9s and they probably won't be running
over many Sonars on the first beat.
* By having the Capri-25s start first of the right
course boats, they will have clear sailing for at least their first 2
legs, maybe more. By the time they start to mix it up with the other
right course boats, they will be well strung out. As they do mix it up
with the handicap boats they should be able to quickly sail through
them. Some of the handicaps boats will also be on a triangle course out
of their way.
Regards,
Bert
Hi All,
Enough of you responded that Friday is the best time.
If you can't make it, send someone who is experienced in your fleet as
your representative. One one person per fleet plus the RC of Bert,
Blake, Jared, and Fred.
I will provide beverages. MB, maybe bring a bottle of
wine you like. I have some but you may not like it, as I don't know
wine.
Meeting Agenda
* Fleet Captains Duties
* Possible Starting Order Change
* Each Fleets Desired Courses and length. Come
prepared.
* Protests, out of fleet courtesy, and "CROSS OR
TACK"
* Anything else anybody wants to bring up
Regards,
Bert
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