[Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
CouponFrog
Doug at CouponFrog.com
Fri Mar 9 17:01:09 CST 2007
I think its sounds naughty.
1. You can't please him/her all the time. and thanks Dan for not faking it.
2. Exciting. a new position. Burt is giving up the mission?
3. There is no right way to do it, solution, or perfect course. and isn't
variety fun. I did not know that was even possible? You contortionist!
4. Some fleets now will get more fun time being on top and some will have
to cum sooner. more fairness. Change it up baby!
5. Who cares how the bed is made. Set the course and go. It's been
puberty since we had to take down our headsail and put up a spin at the
start. A huge wind shift. glory days. Now after they finally get the bed
made, they tell us they have a headache. So frustrating!
6. Yea Steve, inter-racial starts. Sonars and S2 7.9s. Sacrilege!
You guys are Porn Stars.
Austin
_____
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org]
On Behalf Of steve.truax at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:31 PM
To: Odell Tuttle; Dan McNamara
Cc: Dutch Bull; capri25 at lists.wyc.org; Pete Willenbring
Subject: Re: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
More oil for the fire.... I reviewed the partisipation last year and
determined the average number of boats that finished for each fleet for both
the Sunday and Thursday series. In short, the J-22 fleet has more boats on
Sundays and the Capri 25 fleet is tops on Thursdays. Additionally some of
the fleets have very low parisipation. The big issue seems to be traffic on
the first upwind. So my suggestion would be to compress more boats in the
same start and extend the sequence to 5 minute intervals. This adjustment
would extend the entire start sequence by only 4 minutes.
Starting Sequence on 5 minute intervals
Starting Order Sunday Thursday
*1) S2 7.9 & Sonar 12.60 20.19
2) J-24 7.00 11.38
*3) J-22 14.14 18.20
----- -----
& nbsp; 33.74 49.77
*4) Capri-25 13.53 23.13
5) PHRF I & Ensign 6.87 14.81
*6) MORC/PHRF II/III 13.31 17.63
----- -----
28.34 55.57
* Indicates extented starting line.
Supporting Data : Fleet, Avg Boats Finished, Max Boats in Race
Sunday
-------------------
J-22 14.14 17
Capri 25 13.53 16
Sonar 7.40 11
J-24 7.00 10
PHRF I 5.27 7
S2 7.9 5.20 8
PHRF II 3.20 6
PHRF III 2.27 3
Ensign 1.60 6
MORC II 1.47 3
MORC III 1.00 2
Thursday
-------------------
Capri 25 23.13 28
J-22 18.20 23
J-24 11.38 15
Sonar 11.13 15
S2 7.9 9.06 12
PHRF I 7.81 10
PHRF II 7.19 10
Ensign 7.00 9
MORC III 4.50 6
MORC II 3.56 5
PHRF III 3.44 5
Distribution of boats based on the existing proposal by Bert.
Starting Order Sunday Thursday
1) S2 7.9 5.20 9.06
2) J-24 7.00 11.38
3) J-22 14.14 18.20
4) Sonar 7.40 11.13
&nbs p; ----- -----
33.74 49.77
5) Capri-25 13.53 23.13
6) PHRF I & Ensign 6.87 14.81
7) MORC II & III 2.47 7.00
8) PHRF II, III 10.84 10.63
----- -----
&n bsp; 28.34 55.57
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Odell Tuttle" <otuttle at gmail.com>
Among his colorful comments, I believe Dan makes some good points (and I
appreciate his willingness to challenge the status quo.)
Trap courses:
I would also prefer to deal with the heavy traffic in lieu of the parallel
courses. I think we should avoid the trap courses as much as possible.
Regarding the start:
I can only hope that over-running the J24's will be a problem for me this
year, but I can understand Dan's concern. At a minimum, I would advocate
attempting to keep the starting sequence as consistent as possible between
races. Start sequence adaptation is not necessarily an area that I believe
most sailors are passionate about developing. I'd rather we focus our
attention on better ways to negotiate all that traffic (since some idiot
suggested that we not use trap courses.)
Club fees:
I'm not sure if the comment was relevant here, nor would I want to make
judgements about the board (I believe they are serving the club well.)
Nonetheless, I do like the idea of raising the minimum number of races to
make the fleets even more competitive. Or, what about the idea of reducing
fees based on series scores? This is racing club, right? ...why not reward
based on performance? I realize I may be suggesting that my boat pay the
highest fees in the fleet, but I would be excited about the challenge to
correct it.
My 2-cents.
Thanks,
Odell
On 3/8/07, Dan McNamara <mcnamara at visi.com> wrote:
I do not agree. If the starts are based on up wind speed we should start
ahead of the J 24's. The sequence is fine if we want short races like T 1
1/3, W 1 1/2, Z R1... We will also blow through the Sonar fleet and catch
the J22's in most conditions. The question for the fleet is "Are we out
there to race or just show up and be happy with Bert's scraps?"
Personally I hate the trap course. It takes too long to set up
(postponement flag when the wind is good) It can't be adjusted. And
Tactically it is not a challenge the race is won with a good start and first
beat especially if the wind has shifted by the time we have started (80%
likely). Or on Thursday nights guessing what side the wind will hold the
best on the last beat before going flat. I refuse to race any Triangle
especially in heavy air, too dangerous. I don't mind the traffic on a W2
1/2, It is far better then fetch, reach, bob, drift and finish.
How about an earlier start on Thursdays, traffic is better at 4 then 4:30 so
it will take less time to get to the club if we volunteer to start at 6 we
may be able to have the first start unless the S2 7.9 want to start at 5:57.
Or how about each series have a different start order?
There is another issue I have limited info on so if I am misinformed please
let me know. Recently I have been made aware that the slip fees have gone
up this year and they have gone up more for our fleet then others. 1. Why
did the slip fees go up? At the November meeting we had a surplus of money.
So much so that $150,000 was budgeted for remodeling a club house we hope to
tare down in the future. Did the new board mismanage the funds already? 2.
I have heard that the fees needed to go up because the boats participated
too much, not enough boat getting 15 race or less and paying the higher
rate. If this is true why not raise the minimum races? More races should
mean more crew fees and partners (anuals or family) and boats that do not
participate more will pay a higher fee for taking up space that there is a
waiting list for. 3. Is the length of the slip the scarce resou rce? No
depth and width are. How wide your boat or lift is would be a more fair way
of of having different rates. Or have it by the size of the slip that way a
J22 or Sonar is not paying hundreds of dollars less then a Capri 25 for a
space that both boats can fit into. Or raise the rates for every one and
then give rebates for the number of fee paying crew member the the boat has.
4. Is the Capri fleet being singled out and targeted? I have sailed in the
J22, J24, Sonar and S2 7.9 fleets. All of them have tried to get me to
switch to their fleet especially the J's. Their #1 recruiting line is
"your a good sailor, why don't you sail in a real fleet instead of the
Crappy 25's... they are all a bunch of choppers that can't control there
boats and they don't know the rules." They look at us as a feeder fleet, to
train new crew so they can poach them. Other then that we just take up
space and drink all of the beer. I look at the Capri fleet as the perfect
fleet. Nice, helpful and sharing people. Very accomplished sailors that
have gotten all they can out of a poorly designed unstable boat. Just ask
the any one from a anther fleet who has helmed the Capri in heavy air. The
ruder does not work, is your sails don't get eased there is nothing the
driver can do. Not true in a Sonar, J22 or J24 all you need in those fleet
to win a race is a great driver and crew that can follow directions. In the
Capri fleet you need at least two crew that can make adjustments before they
are asked for (very much like racing a MC, C, E and other scows, if you have
to ask its too late you are swimming).
As a fleet the Capri 25's bring in more money than any other. We have the
largest participation, the most fee paying crew, Family and Annual members.
The J 22' have more boats but it is a 3 person boat and less then half the
fleet shows up to most races. The Capri's are crewed by 4-6 and have great
participation. Most boat have a Thursday crew, Saturday crew and Sunday
crew. And we will take crew off the "crew looking for a ride table" A J 22
can't race with a beginner on board and the J 24's only race on Thursdays.
As a fleet, are we happy being under appreciate? Having the established
minority dictate how the club is run and the direction it is going? If we
are not happy with it are we willing to do anything about it? How does
making it more expensive to have your boat at WYC make sailboat racing
better? Are we better off moving to Shore Wood YC if the J22's J24's and
Sonars don't want us at WYC?
I am sorry if I am being a rabble rouser or thinking there is a conspiracy
if there is not. But I am very protective of the C25 fleet, Racing with
and against you is the most fun I have ever had. You are all great people
and excelt competitors. The racing is not any better in the J24 and J22
fleets just the start times and the courses they get. I do fell that the
Capri fleet gets the short end of the stick and now we are being hit with
it. The rate change is going to affect the quality of racing in our fleet,
for some it will mean not buying a new sail this year or next. For
Consensus it will mean not replacing some failed blocks and other hardware
unless I or other crew pay for it. If that is needed I will drop my Annual
membership and be a crew member spending the difference on the boat. And
not contributing to the mismanagement of the club.
The Capri fleet has proven that more expensive does not meet better racing.
I would like it if we as a fleet actively protected what we have built and
got more involved in the management of the club.
Sincerely,
Dan McNamara
Capri 25 crew and Annual member
On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Pete Willenbring wrote:
I also think this is a nice change.question will be how often are we going
to use the Trap course..every week, only on Thursdays..etcI know the race
committee is reluctant to set up the parallel courses when winds are
shifty.and then we will be directly behind the ensignswhich is not good
for either fleet.
Pete
_____
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org]
On Behalf Of Dutch Bull
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:06 PM
To: Kai Kroll; capri25 at lists.wyc.org
Subject: RE: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Kai,
I believe the new start sequence would be a real benefit to the Capri fleet
and should greatly reduce the interaction between our fleet and other fleet
on the course. I would strong support it.
Dutch Bull
Northern Iron & Machine
Ph 651-778-3338
Fx 651-771-1292
Cell 763-300-9562
Dbull at northernim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org]
On Behalf Of Kai Kroll
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:51 AM
To: capri25 at lists.wyc.org
Subject: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Capri-25ers:
The fleet captain meeting is this Friday night. The agenda and proposed new
starting sequence are in the emails below:
I would appreciate feedback on the proposed starting sequence and other
agenda items so that I am able to properly represent the fleet at the
meeting.
Thanks,
Kai
_____
From: fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org] On
Behalf Of Bert Foster
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:19 PM
To: WYC Fleet Captains; Mary Beth Hovey; Fred Somme; Jarod Silverman; Blake
Middleton
Subject: [Fleets] Fleet Captains Meeting Friday Starting Order Discussion @
Bert's House 7:00pm
Hi All,
We are trying to make it lest congested by using the Trapezoid courses and
maybe changing the order of the start and the courses, left or right, fleets
sail.
The plan below came up last night in a discussion I had with assistant RC
Chairman, Terry Foster. See what you think.
Starting Order Left Course Right Course
1) S2 7.9 X
2) J-24 X
3) &nbs p; J-22 X
4) Sonar X
5) Capri-25 X
6) PHRF I & Ensign X
7) &nb sp; MORC II & III X
8) PHRF I, II, III X
The plan here is:
* to start the fleets generally in the order of upwind speed so a
later starting fleet doesn't catch an earlier starting fleet at the 1st
windward mark, as has been happening in some cases now.
* sail most of the one-design fleets that are rigged pretty much the
same (fractional rig, big jibs in front and small jibs in back) on the left
hand course. They will not have a tendency to catch each other and the
fastest S2 7.9 may not lap into the Sonars as they have to make up 2 full
legs and have a 9 minute head start.
* these fleets are generally less strung out than the others.
Therefore, if we start them with the fastest boats first, they won't be
running over one another.
* moving the Ensign after the Capri-25 means the Capri-25s won't have
the problem running over them on the first beat, particularly at the WW
mark, as was a problem for the J-22s. Note the Ensigns do not come out for
Sunday, only Thursday. Moving the Ensigns to star with PHRF I means 2
small fleets and the PHRF Is can mostly sail away from the Ensigns right off
the start (as the Sonars have been doing) and the Ensign won't be run over
by the smaller MORC boats as they were by the J-22s.
* By having the Capri-25s start in this new slot they won't be run
over by the S2 7.9s and they probably won't be running over many Sonars on
the first beat.
* By having the Capri-25s start first of the right course boats, they
will have clear sailing for at least their first 2 legs, maybe more. By the
time they start to mix it up with the other right course boats, they will be
well strung out. As they do mix it up with the handicap boats they should
be able to quickly sail through them. Some of the handicaps boats will also
be on a triangle course out of their way.
Regards,
Bert
Hi All,
Enough of you responded that Friday is the best time. If you can't make it,
send someone who is experienced in your fleet as your representative. One
one person per fleet plus the RC of Bert, Blake, Jared, and Fred.
I will provide beverages. MB, maybe bring a bottle of wine you like. I
have some but you may not like it, as I don't know wine.
Meeting Agenda
* Fleet Captains Duties
* Possible Starting Order Change
* Each Fleets Desired Courses and length. Come prepared.
* Protests, out of fleet courtesy, and "CROSS OR TACK"
* Anything else anybody wants to bring up
Regards,
Bert
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