[J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

Wed Apr 27 12:50:04 CDT 2011

RE:  "Can't remember a J22 in the fleet with a mechanical compass."

Well,  I have one.  Plastimo circa 1990 (year I bought the boat).  Works great and gives me angle of heel.

Can't wait to get home and listen to some CD's and watch "Tin Cup" on the VCR!

Dan Amen
864 Charrette

Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:53:10 -0700
From: yrnehcmretep at yahoo.com
To: lars at larshansenphoto.com
CC: j22 at lists.wyc.org
Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

The view from 390....

A TackTick MicroCompass is $560 with bracket.

SpeedPuck is $400 with bracket.

A Plastimo is approx. $150. Can't remember a J22 in the fleet with a mechanical compass.

A ProStart/Rock Box/NovaSail is $700 with bracket.

The Dollars are in favor of the SpeedPuck.

The KVH digital fluxgate compass patents do not start to run out for 6+ years, so GPS based compass is the low cost alternative. Also, WAAS GPS enable chips are not new. Soon, they will be in cell phones. WAAS gives you increased accuracy.

Bottom line, if cost is the prime, GPS is king. In a year or two WAAS GPS and finally A-GPS.

I believe the cost advantage has a historical parallel. 

Remember the CD vs MP3 war. Appears magnetic compasses are like CD's and GPS's are like MP3's. 

How many CD's have you bought versus iTunes downloads?

GPS is inevitable. 

Peter.

From: Lars Hansen Photography <lars at larshansenphoto.com>
To: j22 at lists.wyc.org
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:32 PM
Subject: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

Greetings J22 sailors,

After the long winter I'm really looking forward to the Dave Cool Ice Breaker next weekend. I hope we have a big turnout. If anybody needs a crew I think there are several people ready to help, post your situation.

Thorn asked if I would continue with the discussion started at the fleet meeting regarding the use of technology and the J22 and the future.

At the national level we have been discussing the current rules interpretation on use of instruments that use GPS data. In particular we are looking at devices that can calculate the distance to the stating line, other devices that measure speed and heading and other devices that can measure and record performance data.

The J22 class exists to support and service J22 sailing and its members, so the real question I have is what do you want for rules. There is a very simple process  to get get new rules in place, all it takes is a desire by the membership and rules can change.

Now a little perspective and a survey.

The J22 class has these objectives:
"These rules are intended to preserve important design
characteristics: ease of handling, low cost of ownership, safety and comfort."

I think we agree this is still a good objective. Feel free to respond to any part of this if you have an idea of something you would like to change.

We have a rule that requires a compass, supposed to be a safety item, seams like a good idea.

Another rule allows optional electronic devices to measure speed, distance and water depth.
Do you agree with this? What do you think "distance" refers to?

Interesting point here: we all use an electronic device to measure time at the start and that device ( a watch or timer) is not specifically allowed. Don't you think we should add "timers" to the list of allowed electronic devices?

Then there is this rule interpretation:
Electronic Compass - Head Lift Function?
Source: Summer 2000 Newsletter
Electronic compasses that display head/lift information are permitted. Instruments that perform calculations, that is receive or output information from speedometers, depth indicators, manual inputs of wind speed, inputs from GPS Instruments, etc., are not permitted.

The first sentence is clear. The second sentence is a little fuzzy. I think when it was written It made sense. That kind of instrumentation was very expensive and not in keeping with the objectives of the class.

Technology advances and things change. My phone has the capacity to give speed and heading and I think it has GPS in it as well. According to the rule interpretation it might be ilegal because it calculates inputs from cell towers and or GPS.  There are also devices that can calculate the distance to the starting line like the Taktic Pro Start (around $600) and the SpeedPuck that measure speed and heading (around $325). I think these devices are illegal on the above interpretation, but they don't  receive data from other instruments it's all on board so they might be legal, all depends how you read that interpretation. I think the basic idea is "keep it simple no fancy instruments". Do you agree with this premiss?

So I think there is an opportunity to upgrade the rules to reflect what you want in the rules and to make them clear for the future. So what do you want?

Do you agree that the J 22 class should allow electronic instruments that measure speed, distance, time, heading and depth? What would you change?

Should the J22 class allow the use of devices that can record and play back races and performance data.  Would you put limits of when you can access this data?

What about the Pro Start device? At $600 is it affordable? Is this the type of information and the type of sailboat racing you think J22 sailing embodies? I think it is GPS based, may not be illegal.

What about the SpeedPuck at $325 is it affordable? It gives speed and heading and can show lifts and headers, nothing illegal with the data it provides but it is GPS based. Would you like to see this device allowed.

Perhaps we should go backwards and disallow all information except compass and speed? Keep the racing simple and basic, how about it?

Thorn has suggested we try this weekend as a test and DISCLAIMER I don't know if it is or not.  The test would be to allow the use of any type of electronic information you want. Get your fish finder going!  IF you like this idea, what devices are you interested in using?

It's your class, what would you like? Please respond as it is the only way your representatives will know what you want.
Thanks and really looking forward to this coming weekend.

Lars Hansen
Team 865
Olds Kool

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