[J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

Wed Apr 27 12:59:49 CDT 2011

989 has one too.

Thanks

John Olson.

TIEco EDI
11114 86th Ave. N
Maple Grove,MN 55369

email: john at tiecoedi.com

ph:  763-463-6550
fx:  763-463-6555

  -----Original Message-----
  From: j22-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:j22-bounces at lists.wyc.org]On
Behalf Of DANIEL J AMEN
  Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:50 PM
  To: yrnehcmretep at yahoo.com; lars at larshansenphoto.com
  Cc: j22 at lists.wyc.org
  Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

  RE:  "Can't remember a J22 in the fleet with a mechanical compass."

  Well,  I have one.  Plastimo circa 1990 (year I bought the boat).  Works
great and gives me angle of heel.

  Can't wait to get home and listen to some CD's and watch "Tin Cup" on the
VCR!

  Dan Amen
  864 Charrette

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
  Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:53:10 -0700
  From: yrnehcmretep at yahoo.com
  To: lars at larshansenphoto.com
  CC: j22 at lists.wyc.org
  Subject: Re: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

  The view from 390....

  A TackTick MicroCompass is $560 with bracket.

  SpeedPuck is $400 with bracket.

  A Plastimo is approx. $150. Can't remember a J22 in the fleet with a
mechanical compass.

  A ProStart/Rock Box/NovaSail is $700 with bracket.

  The Dollars are in favor of the SpeedPuck.

  The KVH digital fluxgate compass patents do not start to run out for 6+
years, so GPS based compass is the low cost alternative. Also, WAAS GPS
enable chips are not new. Soon, they will be in cell phones. WAAS gives you
increased accuracy.

  Bottom line, if cost is the prime, GPS is king. In a year or two WAAS GPS
and finally A-GPS.

  I believe the cost advantage has a historical parallel.

  Remember the CD vs MP3 war. Appears magnetic compasses are like CD's and
GPS's are like MP3's.

  How many CD's have you bought versus iTunes downloads?

  GPS is inevitable.

  Peter.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
  From: Lars Hansen Photography <lars at larshansenphoto.com>
  To: j22 at lists.wyc.org
  Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:32 PM
  Subject: [J22-Fleet 1] J22's and future possibilities.

  Greetings J22 sailors,

  After the long winter I'm really looking forward to the Dave Cool Ice
Breaker next weekend. I hope we have a big turnout. If anybody needs a crew
I think there are several people ready to help, post your situation.

  Thorn asked if I would continue with the discussion started at the fleet
meeting regarding the use of technology and the J22 and the future.

  At the national level we have been discussing the current rules
interpretation on use of instruments that use GPS data. In particular we are
looking at devices that can calculate the distance to the stating line,
other devices that measure speed and heading and other devices that can
measure and record performance data.

  The J22 class exists to support and service J22 sailing and its members,
so the real question I have is what do you want for rules. There is a very
simple process  to get get new rules in place, all it takes is a desire by
the membership and rules can change.

  Now a little perspective and a survey.

  The J22 class has these objectives:
  "These rules are intended to preserve important design
  characteristics: ease of handling, low cost of ownership, safety and
comfort."

  I think we agree this is still a good objective. Feel free to respond to
any part of this if you have an idea of something you would like to change.

  We have a rule that requires a compass, supposed to be a safety item,
seams like a good idea.

  Another rule allows optional electronic devices to measure speed, distance
and water depth.
  Do you agree with this? What do you think "distance" refers to?

  Interesting point here: we all use an electronic device to measure time at
the start and that device ( a watch or timer) is not specifically allowed.
Don't you think we should add "timers" to the list of allowed electronic
devices?

  Then there is this rule interpretation:
  Electronic Compass - Head Lift Function?
  Source: Summer 2000 Newsletter
  Electronic compasses that display head/lift information are permitted.
Instruments that perform calculations, that is receive or output information
from speedometers, depth indicators, manual inputs of wind speed, inputs
from GPS Instruments, etc., are not permitted.

  The first sentence is clear. The second sentence is a little fuzzy. I
think when it was written It made sense. That kind of instrumentation was
very expensive and not in keeping with the objectives of the class.

  Technology advances and things change. My phone has the capacity to give
speed and heading and I think it has GPS in it as well. According to the
rule interpretation it might be ilegal because it calculates inputs from
cell towers and or GPS.  There are also devices that can calculate the
distance to the starting line like the Taktic Pro Start (around $600) and
the SpeedPuck that measure speed and heading (around $325). I think these
devices are illegal on the above interpretation, but they don't  receive
data from other instruments it's all on board so they might be legal, all
depends how you read that interpretation. I think the basic idea is "keep it
simple no fancy instruments". Do you agree with this premiss?

  So I think there is an opportunity to upgrade the rules to reflect what
you want in the rules and to make them clear for the future. So what do you
want?

  Do you agree that the J 22 class should allow electronic instruments that
measure speed, distance, time, heading and depth? What would you change?

  Should the J22 class allow the use of devices that can record and play
back races and performance data.  Would you put limits of when you can
access this data?

  What about the Pro Start device? At $600 is it affordable? Is this the
type of information and the type of sailboat racing you think J22 sailing
embodies? I think it is GPS based, may not be illegal.

  What about the SpeedPuck at $325 is it affordable? It gives speed and
heading and can show lifts and headers, nothing illegal with the data it
provides but it is GPS based. Would you like to see this device allowed.

  Perhaps we should go backwards and disallow all information except compass
and speed? Keep the racing simple and basic, how about it?

  Thorn has suggested we try this weekend as a test and DISCLAIMER I don't
know if it is or not.  The test would be to allow the use of any type of
electronic information you want. Get your fish finder going!  IF you like
this idea, what devices are you interested in using?

  It's your class, what would you like? Please respond as it is the only way
your representatives will know what you want.
  Thanks and really looking forward to this coming weekend.

  Lars Hansen
  Team 865
  Olds Kool

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