[Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
Odell Tuttle
otuttle at gmail.com
Fri Mar 9 09:54:40 CST 2007
Among his colorful comments, I believe Dan makes some good points (and I
appreciate his willingness to challenge the status quo.)
Trap courses:
I would also prefer to deal with the heavy traffic in lieu of the parallel
courses. I think we should avoid the trap courses as much as possible.
Regarding the start:
I can only hope that over-running the J24's will be a problem for me this
year, but I can understand Dan's concern. At a minimum, I would advocate
attempting to keep the starting sequence as consistent as possible between
races. Start sequence *adaptation* is not necessarily an area that I
believe most sailors are passionate about developing. I'd rather we focus
our attention on better ways to negotiate all that traffic (since some idiot
suggested that we not use trap courses.)
Club fees:
I'm not sure if the comment was relevant here, nor would I want to
make judgements about the board (I believe they are serving the club well.)
Nonetheless, I do like the idea of raising the minimum number of races to
make the fleets even more competitive. Or, what about the idea of reducing
fees based on series scores? This is racing club, right? ...why not reward
based on performance? I realize I may be suggesting that my boat pay the
highest fees in the fleet, but I would be excited about the challenge to
correct it.
My 2-cents.
Thanks,
Odell
On 3/8/07, Dan McNamara <mcnamara at visi.com> wrote:
>
> I do not agree. If the starts are based on up wind speed we should start
> ahead of the J 24's. The sequence is fine if we want short races like T 1
> 1/3, W 1 1/2, Z R1... We will also blow through the Sonar fleet and catch
> the J22's in most conditions. The question for the fleet is "Are we out
> there to race or just show up and be happy with Bert's scraps?"
>
> Personally I hate the trap course. It takes too long to set up
> (postponement flag when the wind is good) It can't be adjusted.
> And Tactically it is not a challenge the race is won with a good start and
> first beat especially if the wind has shifted by the time we have started
> (80% likely). Or on Thursday nights guessing what side the wind will hold
> the best on the last beat before going flat. I refuse to race any
> Triangle especially in heavy air, too dangerous. I don't mind the traffic
> on a W2 1/2, It is far better then fetch, reach, bob, drift and finish.
>
>
> How about an earlier start on Thursdays, traffic is better at 4 then 4:30
> so it will take less time to get to the club if we volunteer to start at 6
> we may be able to have the first start unless the S2 7.9 want to start at
> 5:57. Or how about each series have a different start order?
>
>
>
> There is another issue I have limited info on so if I am misinformed
> please let me know. Recently I have been made aware that the slip fees have
> gone up this year and they have gone up more for our fleet then others. 1.
> Why did the slip fees go up? At the November meeting we had a surplus of
> money. So much so that $150,000 was budgeted for remodeling a club house we
> hope to tare down in the future. Did the new board mismanage the funds
> already? 2. I have heard that the fees needed to go up because the boats
> participated too much, not enough boat getting 15 race or less and paying
> the higher rate. If this is true why not raise the minimum races? More
> races should mean more crew fees and partners (anuals or family) and boats
> that do not participate more will pay a higher fee for taking up space that
> there is a waiting list for. 3. Is the length of the slip the scarce
> resource? No depth and width are. How wide your boat or lift is would be a
> more fair way of of having different rates. Or have it by the size of the
> slip that way a J22 or Sonar is not paying hundreds of dollars less then a
> Capri 25 for a space that both boats can fit into. Or raise the rates for
> every one and then give rebates for the number of fee paying crew member the
> the boat has. 4. Is the Capri fleet being singled out and targeted? I
> have sailed in the J22, J24, Sonar and S2 7.9 fleets. All of them have
> tried to get me to switch to their fleet especially the J's. Their
> #1 recruiting line is "your a good sailor, why don't you sail in a real
> fleet instead of the Crappy 25's... they are all a bunch of choppers that
> can't control there boats and they don't know the rules." They look at us
> as a feeder fleet, to train new crew so they can poach them. Other then
> that we just take up space and drink all of the beer. I look at the Capri
> fleet as the perfect fleet. Nice, helpful and sharing people. Very
> accomplished sailors that have gotten all they can out of a poorly designed
> unstable boat. Just ask the any one from a anther fleet who has helmed the
> Capri in heavy air. The ruder does not work, is your sails don't get eased
> there is nothing the driver can do. Not true in a Sonar, J22 or J24 all you
> need in those fleet to win a race is a great driver and crew that can follow
> directions. In the Capri fleet you need at least two crew that can make
> adjustments before they are asked for (very much like racing a MC, C, E and
> other scows, if you have to ask its too late you are swimming).
>
>
> As a fleet the Capri 25's bring in more money than any other. We have the
> largest participation, the most fee paying crew, Family and Annual members.
> The J 22' have more boats but it is a 3 person boat and less then half the
> fleet shows up to most races. The Capri's are crewed by 4-6 and have great
> participation. Most boat have a Thursday crew, Saturday crew and Sunday
> crew. And we will take crew off the "crew looking for a ride table" A J 22
> can't race with a beginner on board and the J 24's only race on Thursdays.
>
>
> As a fleet, are we happy being under appreciate? Having the established
> minority dictate how the club is run and the direction it is going? If we
> are not happy with it are we willing to do anything about it? How does
> making it more expensive to have your boat at WYC make sailboat racing
> better? Are we better off moving to Shore Wood YC if the J22's J24's and
> Sonars don't want us at WYC?
>
>
>
>
> I am sorry if I am being a rabble rouser or thinking there is a conspiracy
> if there is not. But I am very protective of the C25 fleet, Racing with
> and against you is the most fun I have ever had. You are all great people
> and excelt competitors. The racing is not any better in the J24 and J22
> fleets just the start times and the courses they get. I do fell that the
> Capri fleet gets the short end of the stick and now we are being hit with
> it. The rate change is going to affect the quality of racing in our fleet,
> for some it will mean not buying a new sail this year or next.
> For Consensus it will mean not replacing some failed blocks and other
> hardware unless I or other crew pay for it. If that is needed I will drop
> my Annual membership and be a crew member spending the difference on the
> boat. And not contributing to the mismanagement of the club.
>
>
> The Capri fleet has proven that more expensive does not meet better
> racing. I would like it if we as a fleet actively protected what we have
> built and got more involved in the management of the club.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Dan McNamara
> Capri 25 crew and Annual member
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Pete Willenbring wrote:
>
> I also think this is a nice change….question will be how often are we
> going to use the Trap course…..every week, only on Thursdays..etc…I know the
> race committee is reluctant to set up the parallel courses when winds are
> shifty….and then we will be directly behind the ensigns…which is not good
> for either fleet.
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [
> mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org <capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Dutch Bull
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:06 PM
> *To:* Kai Kroll; capri25 at lists.wyc.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
>
>
>
> Kai,
>
>
>
> I believe the new start sequence would be a real benefit to the Capri
> fleet and should greatly reduce the interaction between our fleet and other
> fleet on the course. I would strong support it.
>
>
>
> Dutch Bull
> Northern Iron & Machine
> Ph 651-778-3338
> Fx 651-771-1292
> Cell 763-300-9562
> Dbull at northernim.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org [
> mailto:capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org <capri25-bounces at lists.wyc.org>]*On
> Behalf Of *Kai Kroll
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:51 AM
> *To:* capri25 at lists.wyc.org
> *Subject:* [Capri25] Fleet Captains Meeting
>
> Capri-25ers:
>
>
>
> The fleet captain meeting is this Friday night. The agenda and proposed
> new starting sequence are in the emails below:
>
>
>
> I would appreciate feedback on the proposed starting sequence and other
> agenda items so that I am able to properly represent the fleet at the
> meeting.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Kai
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org [mailto:fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org<fleets-bounces at lists.wyc.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Bert Foster
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:19 PM
> *To:* WYC Fleet Captains; Mary Beth Hovey; Fred Somme; Jarod Silverman;
> Blake Middleton
> *Subject:* [Fleets] Fleet Captains Meeting Friday Starting Order
> Discussion @ Bert's House 7:00pm
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> We are trying to make it lest congested by using the Trapezoid courses and
> maybe changing the order of the start and the courses, left or right, fleets
> sail.
>
> The plan below came up last night in a discussion I had with assistant RC
> Chairman, Terry Foster. See what you think.
>
> *Starting Order Left Course Right Course
> *1) S2 7.9 X
> 2) J-24 X
> 3) J-22 X
> 4) Sonar X
> 5) Capri-25 X
> 6) PHRF I & Ensign X
> 7) MORC II & III X
> 8) PHRF I, II, III X
>
> The plan here is:
>
> - to start the fleets generally in the order of upwind speed so a
> later starting fleet doesn't catch an earlier starting fleet at the 1st
> windward mark, as has been happening in some cases now.
> - sail most of the one-design fleets that are rigged pretty much the
> same (fractional rig, big jibs in front and small jibs in back) on the left
> hand course. They will not have a tendency to catch each other and the
> fastest S2 7.9 may not lap into the Sonars as they have to make up 2
> full legs and have a 9 minute head start.
> - these fleets are generally less strung out than the others.
> Therefore, if we start them with the fastest boats first, they won't be
> running over one another.
> - moving the Ensign after the Capri-25 means the Capri-25s won't
> have the problem running over them on the first beat, particularly at the WW
> mark, as was a problem for the J-22s. Note the Ensigns do not come out for
> Sunday, only Thursday. Moving the Ensigns to star with PHRF I means 2
> small fleets and the PHRF Is can mostly sail away from the Ensigns right off
> the start (as the Sonars have been doing) and the Ensign won't be run over
> by the smaller MORC boats as they were by the J-22s.
> - By having the Capri-25s start in this new slot they won't be run
> over by the S2 7.9s and they probably won't be running over many
> Sonars on the first beat.
> - By having the Capri-25s start first of the right course boats,
> they will have clear sailing for at least their first 2 legs, maybe more.
> By the time they start to mix it up with the other right course boats, they
> will be well strung out. As they do mix it up with the handicap boats they
> should be able to quickly sail through them. Some of the handicaps boats
> will also be on a triangle course out of their way.
>
> Regards,
> Bert
>
>
> Hi All,
> Enough of you responded that Friday is the best time. If you can't make
> it, send someone who is experienced in your fleet as your representative.
> One one person per fleet plus the RC of Bert, Blake, Jared, and Fred.
>
> I will provide beverages. MB, maybe bring a bottle of wine you like. I
> have some but you may not like it, as I don't know wine.
>
> *Meeting Agenda*
>
> - Fleet Captains Duties
> - Possible Starting Order Change
> - Each Fleets Desired Courses and length. Come prepared.
> - Protests, out of fleet courtesy, and "CROSS OR TACK"
> - Anything else anybody wants to bring up
>
> Regards,
> Bert
>
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>
>
>
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